Banning the exploit on Egypt 2

BarytaQ · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject:

I've been able to take it out when I had a decent medic, but honestly it's way to much work with far to little reward.
When people are building on the arch I just get a little depressed inside, It just means that we'll get held there throwing our bodies into a spiked wall of doom that I've come to call "Chuck". No one likes to play with Chuck, even his friends hate him. He's a big bully that just makes the game boring and just sucks ass.
Like I said, I've killed chuck more than once, and I've seen people on the Blus (When I was Red) blow through chuck like no ones beesnas, but it's still infuriating.
I know 3 different kinds of nothing about how the programming would go to make an area unbuildable, but I know that there are areas where you can't build, as in the blocks right next to Point One. Anywho, if there's some way to fix it without compromising the engies then I'm all for it.

Chronic · Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject:

Draco wrote:

I'm not that great with the Source stuff (yet) but would it be possible to set the mod to a vote in-game. If you were to have it similar to the vote for all-talk then that would allow the community the choice to turn it on or off, that way if people want to keep it vanilla they can but if someone's abusing the exploit like crazy it can be stopped.

Not possible, *patching* this requires only a invisible wall around it or make the roof smaller in that spot, either way the only way to vote to not have it would be to vote to change the map to cp_egypt_final_CTfixed. Honestly I can see it getting fixed soon, egypt is pretty popular nowdays. if theres one thing valve hates its glitches

atatme · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:07 am Post subject:

I am 100% for making the arch unbuildable, but if it takes invisible walls i am against it. Demos, soldiers, and rape pyros should still be able to explosion jump up there and use it to their advantage, engie nests should just be impossible. Also, if its possible to make it so that only specific buildings are banned (i realize this is unlikely, but im high and sharing my ideas) then a perfect fix would make it so only sentries cant be built up there. Teleporters and dispensers up there are fine, and heavies + dispensers up there could create interesting defensive tactics, but I realize its probably unlikely to make a certain area of a map unbuildable for a specific building from the engie's aresnal.

Legomaniac · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:16 am Post subject:

junkyard wrote:

on a personal level, it pisses me off. during setup time if i see an engie on my team going for the arch, i know i can't count on them for defending the first point. they're effectively useless for several minutes into the round. further, if point 1 falls, the challenge of making a shifting defense is changed into a turtle-fest, and support for your teammates is largely nonexistant. an engie's job isn't to build a fortress, but rather support their team. how much healing is your dispenser doing, up there? is your tele providing a good mobility option for your teammates? and not to sound like a douche, but any time i see someone building there, i work my ass off to make sure point 1 doesnt get capped. because they deserve to feel useless and unsupportive.

This may be how it happens with some people, and I understand why people are so against the arch, however this argument is claiming to be all inclusive.

You are number 1 in the server junkyard, and you don't use the exploit. That demands respect. However these statements aren't entirely true so I must take issue with them.

Might I point out my top rank on the server for widowmaker kills. At 259, I would hardly call my support for the team during that round "useless". Every time I build a teleporter somewhere else on that point while on defense, it is easily destroyed quickly, so do you expect me to just feed the other team points for killing my teleporter exits?

Like I said in my previous post, I would be ok with building up there being banned, however, you have to realize that when I have built up there in the past, I wasn't being a deuche engie like you were describing, I was getting down off the arch, not turtling, shooting the fuck out of people with my widowmaker, and supporting my team while not feeding the enemy with points when they distroy my tele exit.

tldr: at least when i've done it, it's not nearly as bad as what you are trying to make it out to be, but i'm still willing for it to be banned from building, but not gimping the wrangler jump

junkyard · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:59 am Post subject:

i guess this mostly comes down to playstyle differences we have, but for the most part i'll agree that how you play that area is different than most. at this point, you're the only one i remember who builds up there and doesn't camp it.

though as far as teleports, my personal view is that its better to tuck a tele behind enemy lines, even if you only get 5 allies thru before its broken and you have to think about dropping a new one somewhere else. that's just me though, and i don't wanna step on your toes and tell you how to play Smile

nice work last night btw

finally, its my understanding that the way mapmakers make areas unbuildable, is by applying a nobuild brush to specific surfaces. not really sure how this works, but i believe it works like a texture, you paint an image and apply it to the object you want, and that makes a surface unbuildable.

Pharaoh Man · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject:

Hey junkyard. You said exactly what I wanted to say but it took you one paragraph, not nine pages. Razz

Airblast is stupid though? "Annoying" maybe, "awesome" definitely, but "stupid"?

Well, yeah, maybe just a little.

I agree with not messing up the engy's options and nerfing the wrangler, and I agree with not walling off the top part (it's a great place to rocket jump). The no-build brush is the easiest and best solution.

I vote against an engy cap, too. I had a great game today attacking into a team of 4 engies, and while it was annoying, I felt like we had a small chance to win, even if we didn't get there. I don't see 5+ engies much, and when I do it's not really OP.

junkyard · Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:29 am Post subject:

Thanks

and yeah, I also agree with you about the engie cap. More than 3 at any time actually weakens a D team, as you're losing classes that can push the skirmish line away from the point. Unless the attacking team is pretty lax, they'll eventually pressure in enough to make a strong push together. And when the buildings go, the defending team pretty much rolls over. The issue usually seems to sort itself out too, when people realize they could be more useful playing a different class (similar to when you see 5 snipers in a team).

Legomaniac · Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject:

If we have come to a consensus on this, we need to implement something. If we have decided we have not come to a consensus on this, we need to re-vote and make a final decision.

Leaving it as is allows any public players to abuse the arch. Yesterday I was in the server and there was agreement that we would let it go. Ineffable was building up there and came down after being informed. Nony said in game the other day that it would be a dick move to continue to play up there now. I may have interpreted that as consensus incorrectly, I don't know.

Today however, I bring this up and within moments of attempting to explain that leaving the situation stranded was not acceptable, I get continually accosted for even mentioning it in the server. So here I am.

If this topic never closes, people will always ask. If everyone in the clan receives the same response as I did today I doubt the discussion will remain civil for long. Now do we really want that?

anonymousity · Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject:

Let's mod it. I'll start researching how, but if anyone already knows the necessary steps, please post here.
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WildBillThickok · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:31 am Post subject:

Actually getting to play egypt 3 will be fun I guess, but it is my least favorite map of the 3.

tru.pairadocs · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:00 am Post subject:

anonymousity wrote:

Let's mod it. I'll start researching how, but if anyone already knows the necessary steps, please post here.

As stated before making the area "nobuild" seems to be the best option. Hope either of these links can help:

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=11328

http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=163805
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Vlad Piranha · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:13 am Post subject:

I know you can put custom decals in maps. I'll bet we could just put a "Do Not Build Here" decal up there in addition to periodic Adminbot messges and the community would play along. In my experience, it's not hard to get people to operate according to clan rules and kicking them is as harsh a threat as we'd probably need for all but a very select few.

Last edited by Vlad Piranha on Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

junkyard · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:51 am Post subject:

I'd say a nobuild solution would be more elegant. One of doc's links contains info on a plugin one can use to define an area as nobuild, and then it saves that information with the map file, permanently changing it. It would seem to me that this would be an easy and practical solution.

Though when I think about it, I would love to see a trollface decal on the top of the pillars, to stare down an unaware engie who tries building there

anonymousity · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject:

junkyard wrote:

I'd say a nobuild solution would be more elegant. One of doc's links contains info on a plugin one can use to define an area as nobuild, and then it saves that information with the map file, permanently changing it. It would seem to me that this would be an easy and practical solution.

Though when I think about it, I would love to see a trollface decal on the top of the pillars, to stare down an unaware engie who tries building there

This sounds perfect. We'll start making preparations.
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Vlad Piranha · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject:

junkyard wrote:

Though when I think about it, I would love to see a trollface decal on the top of the pillars, to stare down an unaware engie who tries building there

Ask and it shall be given: